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teamone Digest V1 #7
teamone Digest Sat, 19 Feb 2000 Volume: 01 Issue: 007
In This Issue:
[teamone] REBOL/View
[teamone] Re: BeIA was: Re: Re: Fast PPCs
[teamone] Testing (please ignore)
[teamone] Re: Posting rights? (fwd)
[teamone] Re: Posting rights? (fwd)
[teamone] Re: AXIS
[teamone] DDoS comment
[teamone] Re: Fast PPCs
[teamone] Pentium is a 64bit chip??
[teamone] Re: Pentium is a 64bit chip??
[teamone] Re: Pentium is a 64bit chip??
[teamone] Re: Pentium is a 64bit chip??
[teamone] BeIA : suitable for ultra low-end?
[teamone] Re: Pentium is a 64bit chip??
[teamone] AGP vs 2xAGP vs 4xAGP
[teamone] MCA vs Zorro2
[teamone] Re: MCA vs Zorro2
[teamone] Re: AGP vs 2xAGP vs 4xAGP
[teamone] latest IRC log of Fleecy
[teamone] [fwd] AltiVec enabled GCC RPMS
[teamone] OT: Comments on UCF's Computer Science and Math pr
[teamone] We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] AmiJoe Kernel choice
[teamone] AmiJOE on ANN
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] RAM types
[teamone] Re: RAM types
[teamone] Re: RAM types
[teamone] Re: RAM types
[teamone] Re: RAM types
[teamone] Re: RAM types
[teamone] Re: RAM types
[teamone] Memory with pins?
[teamone] Re: Memory with pins?
[teamone] met@box cartoons?
[teamone] Re: Memory with pins?
[teamone] Re: met@box cartoons?
[teamone] Re: RAM types
[teamone] Mot's HA Linux
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: Mot's HA Linux
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
[teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gabriele Santilli <giesse@writeme.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:05:19 +0200
Subject: [teamone] REBOL/View
Answering to myself...
GS> only; the Linux version should be the next to be released,
The Linux x86 version has been released today.
...going to download it... :-)
Regards,
Gabriele.
--
o--------------------) .-^-. (----------------------------------o
| Gabriele Santilli / /_/_\_\ \ Amiga Group Italia --- L'Aquila |
| GIESSE on IRC \ \-\_/-/ / http://www.amyresource.it/AGI/ |
o--------------------) `-v-' (----------------------------------o
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:51:56 +0100
From: Dave Haynie <dhaynie@jersey.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: BeIA was: Re: Re: Fast PPCs
On Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:25:04 GMT, scm@enterprise.net jammed all night, and by sunrise was overheard remarking:
> 101 wrote:
> > even if you think about the future with a full-blown hardware on an IA
> >(in a few years) then you'll have a lot of apps, and a cool architecture
> >ready for the upgrown hardware, so you can extend your IA as you like, and
> Extend an IA? I thought the whole point of IAs was that they were contained function specific devices.
That is exactly the point of an IA. If you build something that looks,
walks, and talks like a PC, it's a PC, regardless of whether you call it
one or not. The main reason WinCE failed in the handheld market was
exactly this: PC notions don't play in IA space any more than IA ideas
are especially good for PCs.
The idea is to develop a spectrum of devices, which will of two
fundamentally different kinds. One is simply making devices that exist
today smarter. For example, one often touted idea in IA space is to make
printers smart enough that a client (PC or IA) can figure out, easily,
how to print on such a device, no drivers (as we now them) needed.
The other kind is putting PC functionality in places it currently doesn't
play too well. But only the piece you need there. Set Top Box/Web
Terminal is one such application. Palm computer (assuming you run with
the broader "Information" rather than "Internet" spin of the acronym) is
another.
> You don't extend them, you buy another one more suited for the task so I
> wouldn't for instance buy a DVD player for my PDA - I'd buy a DVD IA.
Right. A computer can do pretty much anything an IA can do today, though
under the limits of you having to pay for and maintain that computer. The
CD player in your listening room or DVD player in your home theatre isn't
doing anything your computer can't do (if you have a modern computer),
but it's under more favorable conditions (unless you have a full stereo
system and large-screen TV hooked up to your PC). There's no need to
incur the expense of a full PC in the place of that DVD player. Once the
DVD player does what a PC can do, it'll cost in the range of a PC as
well, and yet, still compromise on applications or flexibility or
whatever. So you really don't want to mutate that DVD player into a full
PC. That doesn't mean today's DVD playing is the only interesting
function a DVD player will ever have, however.
> > once say you costumers that here's what we provide: a full pc in your hand
> >as it is on you desktop.
> Ain't gonna happen. Certain form factors fit certain functions. The IA idea is that you have access to data (the internet/intranet/home network) on whatever you are using so you have a multitude of IAs that perform specific functions but have the ability to use those functions from other IAs. Eg. Using the DVD player on my home server and viewing the output on my PDA. The days of expanding one device are over. The network is the computer - heard that before somewhere ;-)
Yup -- the basic idea beind the IA concept is network, rather than PC,
centralization. This doesn't really speak to the idea of a PC, but
really, PC users will still have PCs 20 years hence. They'll be connected
to a network of other intelligent devices -- IAs. For some, there need
not be any central PC; you certainly wouldn't need this to browse the
web, or send a Java program to your toaster oven to get it to make the
toast at 7AM. With everything networked, in fact, IA apps are likely to
be less important than today. For example, a Palm computer is a nice IA,
designed to do just what it does better than anything yet encountered.
But it's no PC. And it never will be. On the other hand, if both the Palm
and the PC are on my network, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to
access the PC, and PC-resident apps, from the Palm. But the apps that run
on the Palm are going to be the modern version of today's Palm apps for
quite some time -- simple, fits-in-a-small-screen.
This is inherently limited by the desire for portability and the ability
of humans to see, it's not technology driven. It's simply not possible to
have a 1024x768 display in a Palm-oriented device that the average
person can make sense of. Maybe something else, maybe we'll dump Palms
and wear glasses with a head-up display and keep the PDA clipped to the
belt and subvocalize to communicate with it. But it's not happening soon,
and until you can really put a PC-class of performance and storage into
that, plus a few days worth of juice (at least), this kind of thing will
not mutate into a PC. Once it has comparable performance, then it is the
PC, and will be competing directly with what you can do on a desktop.
--
Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology, Met@box AG | http://www.metabox.de
My opinions are my own, but sign the right NDAs, pay those royalties
on time and in cash, and they may be yours, too.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:58:50 -0500
From: Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com>
Subject: [teamone] Testing (please ignore)
Just testing to see if my new address works here yet.
Damien Mc Kenna, Computer Science Student Married to Jen Parent of 4 cats
http://mc-kenna.com damien@mc-kenna.com ICQ:17066133
Please use our new web and email addresses and remove any old ones you have
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:58:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Randy Vice <damocles@thenostromo.cx>
Subject: [teamone] Re: Posting rights? (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:19:35 +0100
From: Jonas Petersson <zap@xms.se>
To: Randy Vice <damocles@thenostromo.reefer.org>
Subject: Re: Posting rights?
You wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 Feb 2000, Jonas Petersson wrote:
> > Are my mails getting through to you at all? I've posted twice recently,
> > but have not seen my own articles?
>
> AFAIR, no.
>
> Next time you post something, send me a copy.
Here's a copy of what I sent just a few minutes ago.
/ Jonas
--
Jonas Petersson E-mail: mailto:Jonas.Petersson@infohwy.se
Web: http://www.infohwy.se/ Tel: 011-244800 Fax: 011-244809
Address: Information Highway Norrköping AB, Box 3294, 600 03 Norrköping
Pattern: Hiroshima '45. Chernobyl '86. Windows 2000.
-- Attached file included as plaintext by Listar --
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
Message-ID: <38AAF43A.9363D62B@xms.se>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:02:18 +0100
From: Jonas Petersson <zap@xms.se>
Organization: Infohwy, http://www.infohwy.se/
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: teamone@thenostromo.cx
Subject: Re: [teamone] Re: Kerbango's radio
References: <yam8079.966.18151072@mail.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chuck Davis wrote:
> On 14-Feb-00, Randy Vice, wrote:
> >http://www.kerbango.com
>
> Kewl device :) When available, I will purchase one. They're gonna sell =
a
> million. IPO stock, anyone ;)
While we are on the cool side of hardware, take a look at this:
http://developer.axis.com/
Sort of Crusoe's baby brother. We've been running Axis stuff for several
years without a glitch (only bothered with their free upgrade once in
order to get hardware upscaled pictures), and their new Linux based
stuff including source code for a BlueTooth implementation looks spot on
to me!
/ Jonas
--
Jonas Petersson E-mail: mailto:Jonas.Petersson@infohwy.se =
Web: http://www.infohwy.se/ Tel: 011-244800 Fax: 011-244809
Address: Information Highway Norrk=F6ping AB, Box 3294, 600 03 Norrk=F6pi=
ng
Pattern: Hiroshima '45. Chernobyl '86. Windows 2000.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 17:40:34 +0100
From: Dave Haynie <dhaynie@jersey.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: Posting rights? (fwd)
On Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:58:15 -0500 (EST), Randy Vice <damocles@thenostromo.reefer.org> jammed all night, and by sunrise was overheard remarking:
> Here's a copy of what I sent just a few minutes ago.
>
> / Jonas
> While we are on the cool side of hardware, take a look at this:
> http://developer.axis.com/
> Sort of Crusoe's baby brother.
ETRAX 100 is not even remotely similar to Crusoe, according to the online
specs.
It's a fairly conventional microRISC with on-chip Ethernet (fast
Ethernet, like the latest embedded PPCs), lots of DMA channels, and other
I/O. Aside from the on-chip ATA (though only ATA-3) and SCSI, you can
find MIPS and PowerPC variations that do the same basic function.
Probably some others, too. The power consumption is good, but not unusual
for an embedded-class chip (the ColdFire chip we use in our "Phoenix"
system at Met@box draws a max of 950mW, versus their 800mW; of course,
we're not a portable...).
This looks fairly useful for implementing low performance but cheap
devices that live on Ethernet. Assuming the chips themselves are cheap --
no prices mentioned online.
> and their new Linux based
> stuff including source code for a BlueTooth implementation looks spot on
> to me!
For embedded stuff, it's fine. Their Linux is based on uClinux, which is
the MMU-less version that runs on a number of mid-to-low-end embedded
CPUs (depending on where you draw the line -- some designers think the
PPC750 is an embedded chip; it's in as many telecom devices as Macs these
days).
--
Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology, Met@box AG | http://www.metabox.de
My opinions are my own, but sign the right NDAs, pay those royalties
on time and in cash, and they may be yours, too.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:06:48 +0100
From: Jonas Petersson <zap@xms.se>
Subject: [teamone] Re: AXIS
Dave Haynie wrote:
> > While we are on the cool side of hardware, take a look at this:
> > http://developer.axis.com/
>
> > Sort of Crusoe's baby brother.
>
> ETRAX 100 is not even remotely similar to Crusoe, according to the online
> specs.
>
> It's a fairly conventional microRISC with on-chip Ethernet (fast
> Ethernet, like the latest embedded PPCs), lots of DMA channels, and other
> I/O. Aside from the on-chip ATA (though only ATA-3) and SCSI, you can
> find MIPS and PowerPC variations that do the same basic function.
> Probably some others, too. The power consumption is good, but not unusual
> for an embedded-class chip (the ColdFire chip we use in our "Phoenix"
> system at Met@box draws a max of 950mW, versus their 800mW; of course,
> we're not a portable...).
Well, my similarity hint was more in the feel of "reliable, tailored
Linux box" sort of area.
> This looks fairly useful for implementing low performance but cheap
> devices that live on Ethernet. Assuming the chips themselves are cheap --
> no prices mentioned online.
The AXIS products are rather good in my experience: We've been running
their original webcam for 3+ years without a hitch and we are about to
get one of their 7xDVD-towers. I friend of mine has been reselling their
stuff for a few years and they just keep going...
I haven't really bothered with specific chip prices, all I know is that
their complete systems sure win in the long run. Above mentioned tower
complete with 7 SCSI DVD drives comes down to around 25000 SEK (1 USD =
8.6 SEK).
/ Jonas
--
Jonas Petersson E-mail: mailto:Jonas.Petersson@infohwy.se
Web: http://www.infohwy.se/ Tel: 011-244800 Fax: 011-244809
Address: Information Highway Norrköping AB, Box 3294, 600 03 Norrköping
Pattern: Hiroshima '45. Chernobyl '86. Windows 2000.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:32:21 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] DDoS comment
http://cryptome.org/madsen-hmhd.htm
couldn't help it, had to post this link.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:15:11 +0100
From: Jonas Petersson <Jonas.Petersson@infohwy.se>
Subject: [teamone] Re: Fast PPCs
[ This didn't get through last week due to mail sending address, trying
again... ]
g'o'tz ohnesorge wrote:
> Damien Mc Kenna wrote:
> > On 2/12/00 1:52:55 PM, Randy Vice wrote:
> > > That and a different domain as some people are having problems
> > > connecting to http://thenostromo.cx for some reason. :-\
> >
> > It must be some screwup at your uplink, it _should_ work. Or
> > try cohosting it.
>
> I found that some sites work both as "www.sitename.xyz" as well as
> "sitename.xyz", but others work only with one of the two names
> (varies which).
Some sites like to create an A record in their DNS for the actual domain
in order to allow web visitors to drop the "www." - the drawback is that
unless you run your mail server on the very same box you may confuse
some other mail servers in the world. Unless I'm confused, the rule is
to use MX records as long as they exist (most will) and as a last resort
fall back to a domain A record, but I have noted that not all
implementations follow this rule.
You have been warned... / Jonas
--
Jonas Petersson, Information Highway http://www.infohwy.se/
mailto:Jonas.Petersson@infohwy.se http://www.xms.se/~zap/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:30:39 -0500
From: Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com>
Subject: [teamone] Pentium is a 64bit chip??
One of my school books ("A+ Guide to Managing and Maintaining Your PC") says
that the Pentium is a true 64bit chip because its data path and word size are
64bit. Could someone please explain why this is wrong. Also, how does the
P6 and P7 cores fit into this?
Thanks.
Damien Mc Kenna, Computer Science Student Married to Jen Parent of 4 cats
http://mc-kenna.com damien@mc-kenna.com ICQ:17066133
Please use our new web and email addresses and remove any old ones you have
------------------------------
From: "Thomas Rudloff" <rudloff@metabox.de>
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:32:39 +0100
Subject: [teamone] Re: Pentium is a 64bit chip??
From: Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com>
> One of my school books ("A+ Guide to Managing and Maintaining Your PC") says
> that the Pentium is a true 64bit chip because its data path and word size are
> 64bit. Could someone please explain why this is wrong. Also, how does the
> P6 and P7 cores fit into this?
> Thanks.
>
>
It is true that the data bus of the Pentium is 64bit. The register
size is 32bit. This makes the chip per definition to a 32bit chip.
Thomas Rudloff
Metabox AG
There are no problems, only solutions.
------------------------------
Subject: [teamone] Re: Pentium is a 64bit chip??
From: Holger Bettag <hobold@Informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE>
Date: 23 Feb 2000 17:28:52 +0100
Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com> writes:
>
> One of my school books ("A+ Guide to Managing and Maintaining Your PC") says
> that the Pentium is a true 64bit chip because its data path and word size are
> 64bit. Could someone please explain why this is wrong. Also, how does the
> P6 and P7 cores fit into this?
>
The "bit width" of a CPU is not strictly defined by a single architectural
attribute. Several candidates for a "normative" bit width exist:
- word width of the general purpose registers
- width of internal data paths
- width of external data paths
- width of the ALU
- with of the architected address range
There are probably more...
Back in the days of the 8 bit processors, ALUs were 8 bit wide, but address
range was already 16 bit.
In the age of 16 bit processors, registers and ALUs were 16 bits wide, but
often there were more than 16 address bits. Segmented addressing was needed
to make use of more than 64 KByte for a single process.
When the first 32 bit CPUs appeared, they had 32 bit wide general purpose
registers and 32 bits of architected address space. But for example the 68000
had only a 16 bit ALU and its data bus was only 16 bits wide. Of the address
bits, only 24 were externally visible on pins.
Nowadays, with "64 bit CPUs" a reality for high end computers, the address
width is the important criterion. Only a true 64 bit machine can linearly
address more than 4 GByte for each running process. And when you handle
pointer variables that are 64 bits wide, it makes a lot of sense to have
64 bit wide registers, a 64 bit ALU and 64 bit wide internal data paths. All
current 64 bit CPUs that I know of meet this definition of "64 bit".
Internal bus widths tend to be wider (think of the 256 bit wide backside L2
bus of Coppermine or the G5), and registers have been wider than the "bitness"
ever since FPUs have moved on-chip (you don't even need to consider AltiVec or
ISSE). External buses are sometimes narrower (to save some pins and a lot of
bucks on packaging) and sometimes wider (to better feed the new and fast CPU
cores from the same old memory chips).
So, by all intents and purposes, the 'x86 architecture was 16 bit until and
including the '286, and is 32 bit from the '386 onwards. AMD's K8 will
probably extend it to 64 bits. The P6 core is 32 bits, but it has some
extensions to enable it to address 64 GByte of physical RAM. But every single
process can only address 4 GByte directly, since pointers are still 32 bits
wide. AFAIK K7 and P7 also have these extensions, but are still 32 bit cores.
(BTW, the G5 is also rumoured to be able to address 64 GByte of physical RAM.
There are four unused bits in each of the "segment registers" which could be
used by the OS to select one of sixteen banks of 4 GByte each. But processes
would still be limited to 4 GB of directly addressable memory.)
Holger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 00 20:17:55 MEZ
From: peterk@combo.ganesha.com (Dr. Peter Kittel)
Subject: [teamone] Re: Pentium is a 64bit chip??
Holger Bettag wrote:
>Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com> writes:
>>
>> One of my school books ("A+ Guide to Managing and Maintaining Your PC") says
>> that the Pentium is a true 64bit chip because its data path and word size are
>> 64bit. Could someone please explain why this is wrong. Also, how does the
>> P6 and P7 cores fit into this?
>>
>The "bit width" of a CPU is not strictly defined by a single architectural
>attribute. Several candidates for a "normative" bit width exist:
>
>Back in the days of the 8 bit processors, ALUs were 8 bit wide,
Not always. People wondered why the Z80 needed *so* many clock cycles
for its operations, especially the 16-bit ones. Until someone found
out that the figures fit nicely when you assume a 4-bit ALU in the Z80!
MfG / Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail:
Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ peterk @ combo.ganesha.com
------------------------------
Subject: [teamone] BeIA : suitable for ultra low-end?
From: "Cedric Degea" <degea@directprovider.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:00:49 +0000
Quote from BeNews' talkback forum :
====
The device had USB, modem, networking, sound video etc all running with
a Cyrix
MegiaGX chipset from a 32mb flash rom. The flash is the whole system RAM
with BeIA
taking a measly 6mb including Opera, Real Audio and Flash. The main
interface appears
to be HTML pages loaded within Opera with email, web, favourites,
calendars etc. The
device itself is pretty small about 2cm high by 20 wide and 15 deep.
====
6 MB.. Ok, more like what Dave described than really "we managed
to make it fit in the same devices [and larger market] that
QNX does" but still reasonably nice..
Funny how the MediaGX chipset (is this from Thomson?) is
recurrent in news forwarded to TeamONE.
--
http://webperso.directprovider.net/degea/ | BeDev E-16870
"Functionless art is simply tolerated vandalism;
-- We are the vandals" (Type O-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:09:02 -0800 (PST)
From: "Samuel A. Falvo II" <kc5tja@armored.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: Pentium is a 64bit chip??
On Wed, 23 Feb 2000, Damien Mc Kenna wrote:
> One of my school books ("A+ Guide to Managing and Maintaining Your PC") says
> that the Pentium is a true 64bit chip because its data path and word size are
> 64bit. Could someone please explain why this is wrong. Also, how does the
The Pentium is anything but a 64-bit chip. This logic would lead anyone
to believe that many of the PowerPC G4s are 128-bit chips. Clearly this
isn't the case.
The Bit-ness of a chip is determined by the maximum wordsize its ALU can
process. This, for example, makes the 68008, despite its 8-bit bus, a
32-bit CPU. And this also makes the Pentium a meagre 32-bit machine.
> P6 and P7 cores fit into this?
No. They too are 32-bit machines. Merced (Octanium now) and McKinley are
64-bit chips. DEC Alpha are 64-bit as well. But any CPU with the words
Pentium or Xeon in its name is most definately not 64-bit. :-)
--
KC5TJA/6, DM13, QRP-L #1447
Samuel A. Falvo II
Oceanside, CA
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:41:50 -0500
From: Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com>
Subject: [teamone] AGP vs 2xAGP vs 4xAGP
What changes between the different AGP standards, is it bit width or memory
bandwidth? Are there any other differences?
Thanks.
Damien Mc Kenna, Computer Science Student Married to Jen Parent of 4 cats
http://mc-kenna.com damien@mc-kenna.com ICQ:17066133
Please use our new web and email addresses and remove any old ones you have
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:37:41 -0500
From: Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com>
Subject: [teamone] MCA vs Zorro2
Can someone please explain the difference between IBM's MCA and Zorro2? Are
they the same thing with different names or is MCA based on Z2?
Thanks.
Damien Mc Kenna, Computer Science Student Married to Jen Parent of 4 cats
http://mc-kenna.com damien@mc-kenna.com ICQ:17066133
Please use our new web and email addresses and remove any old ones you have
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 03:42:38 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: MCA vs Zorro2
Damien Mc Kenna wrote:
> Can someone please explain the difference between IBM's MCA and Zorro2? Are
> they the same thing with different names or is MCA based on Z2?
I wouldn't try to plug a card from one into the other. ;)
Micro Channel Architecture, introduced in the PS/2 (Personal System 2) of which
now only the keyboard and mouse plugs survived, grabbed most of the good ideas
from Zorro2, like autoconfig, Vendor and Product IDs burned into cards, interrupt
handling without jumpers, but I think it was more or less based on ISA. I'm not
sure at the moment whether it was 32bit, may have been the time.
It failed in the market because IBM tried to use it as a clone killer, and
wouldn't license it to anyone (had Commodore been cool, they might have licensed
Zorro2 to all the PClone people, and guess where Amiga could have been! ;) ). So
all the cloners, led by Compaq I think, came up with EISA instead - 32bit ISA
with expensive slots. EISA died when PCI got in for the higher bandwidth cards.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 03:42:40 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: AGP vs 2xAGP vs 4xAGP
Damien Mc Kenna wrote:
> What changes between the different AGP standards, is it bit width or memory
> bandwidth? Are there any other differences?
Bit width always stays 32bit, even for the latest version, AGPpro (which only has
a longer slot for more power pins, so Voodoos can suck their MegaWatts; old cards
fit into that slot, and AGPpro cards should also work in old AGP slots, if they
can get energy from a hard drive plug or so).
2xAGP transfers data on both clock signal sides (when it goes up and when it
falls, I forgot the proper English term), and so can double the data rate - that
trick somehow seems really fashionable in all places now, the Athlon bus and DDR
RAM also use it.
4xAGP I don't know, maybe it also increases clock speed, or transfers four bits
per clock tick. A more important difference is that 4xAGP can only use 1.5Volt
signalling, instead of 3.3 or 1.5 like the other versions.
To make sure you don't plug in a card that doesn't comply, the AGP slot was
rotated 180 degrees, so that the bridge inside it is now in another position.
That's why modern gfx cards have two slots in their connector, one that lets them
fit into 1x and 2x slots on older boards, and one that lets them fit into modern
4x boards.
If your gfx card has only one such slot, you have to buy a new one for your 4xAGP
mainboard (don't cry, you'd want that anyway, to get something for your money ;)
).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:00:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Randy Vice <damocles@thenostromo.cx>
Subject: [teamone] latest IRC log of Fleecy
http://www.amigazone.com/pages/fleecy2.html
: damocles@TheNostromo.cx : Bruce Morrow, a man before and after his time :
: "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the :
: United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." :
: - Samuel Adams : Morrow Project Science - Postholocaust Party Animals
------------------------------
Subject: [teamone] [fwd] AltiVec enabled GCC RPMS
From: Holger Bettag <hobold@Informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE>
Date: 29 Feb 2000 17:51:52 +0100
Saw this on the LinuxPPC developer list:
------- Start of forwarded message -------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:12:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@drgw.net>
To: linuxppc-dev <linuxppc-dev@lists.linuxppc.org>
Subject: AltiVec enabled GCC RPMS
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002290908320.10831-100000@altus.drgw.net>
On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Kumar Gala wrote:
> For all of you out there waiting to get your hands on an AltiVec enabled
> GCC it is now available. Check out http://www.altivec.org/ (Tools
> Section). There is source and patches available for binutils, gdb, gcc.
> These patches are due to the wonderful work of Tom Wood, and others at
> Motorola.
And to make this even easier, I've got RPMS for the altivec gcc compiler
for your RPM-based powerpc linux system.
Hopefully these RPMS will be on the main altivec.org download site soon,
however if you need them before then, email me and I'll get them to you.
(I only have a 256k DSL line, so having everyone download directly from my
machine wouldn't work that well :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Troy Benjegerdes troy@blacklablinux.com hozer@drgw.net
Somone asked my why I work on this free (http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/)
software stuff and not get a real job. Charles Shultz had the best answer:
"Why do musicians compose symphonies and poets write poems? They do it
because life wouldn't have any meaning for them if they didn't. That's why
I draw cartoons. It's my life." -- Charles Shultz
** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/
------- End of forwarded message -------
Apple hardware has just become much more interesting for me. :-)
Holger
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:03:38 -0500
From: Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com>
Subject: [teamone] OT: Comments on UCF's Computer Science and Math programs?
(for a variety of reasons) I'm looking to transfer from my current college to
UCF in Florida and was wondering if anyone here had heard anything about it?
I'm mainly wondering about professors and individual classes that are good/bad
(personal opinion). You can reply privately if you want, just so nobody's nose
hairs get twitched (and to keep the lawyers off the list)...
Thanks!
Damien Mc Kenna, Computer Science Student Married to Jen Parent of 4 cats
http://mc-kenna.com damien@mc-kenna.com ICQ:17066133
Please use our new web and email addresses and remove any old ones you have
------------------------------
From: "Andy Finkel" <andy@flyingcat.com>
Subject: [teamone] We're looking for programmers...
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:01:50 -0500
Hi:
Thought I'd mention, we're actively looking for programmers to work on our
various projects in Hildesheim, Germany. (especially the Phoenix) We're
looking for people with C, assembler, Amiga and/or Linux/Unix experience.
What other way can you have the chance to work personally with Dave Haynie
on a project :-)
Send resume's, expressions of interest, and so on, directly to me at
andy@flyingcat.com (my email follows me around)
Thanks,
Andy Finkel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:31:40 +0100
From: Dave Haynie <dhaynie@jersey.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:01:50 -0500, "Andy Finkel" <andy@flyingcat.com> jammed all night, and by sunrise was overheard remarking:
> What other way can you have the chance to work personally with Dave Haynie
> on a project :-)
Beer boy! I need a refill!
--
Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology, Met@box AG | http://www.metabox.de
"Destined to take the place of the Mud Shark in your mythology"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:30:56 -0500
From: Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
At 01:01 PM 2/29/00, you wrote:
> What other way can you have the chance to work personally with Dave Haynie
> on a project :-)
Hey, don't forget about some guy called "Andy Finkel" :-)
Damien Mc Kenna, Computer Science Student Married to Jen Parent of 4 cats
http://mc-kenna.com damien@mc-kenna.com ICQ:17066133
Please use our new web and email addresses and remove any old ones you have
------------------------------
Date: 29 Feb 00 14:35:57 -0500
From: ashw@lr.net (Ash R. J. Wyllie)
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
Extracted from the mind of Dave Haynie;
>On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:01:50 -0500, "Andy Finkel" <andy@flyingcat.com> jammed
>all night, and by sunrise was overheard remarking:
>> What other way can you have the chance to work personally with Dave Haynie
>> on a project :-)
>Beer boy! I need a refill!
I can handle the beer end of the job, but I'm a little out of
practice programming :{.
-ash
for assistance dial MYCROFTXXX
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:12:46 -0800 (PST)
From: "Samuel A. Falvo II" <kc5tja@armored.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
On 29 Feb 2000, Ash R. J. Wyllie wrote:
> >> What other way can you have the chance to work personally with Dave Haynie
> >> on a project :-)
>
> >Beer boy! I need a refill!
I would love to work on the project as well -- I just don't want to move
from California... :(
--
KC5TJA/6, DM13, QRP-L #1447
Samuel A. Falvo II
Oceanside, CA
------------------------------
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
From: Holger Bettag <hobold@Informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE>
Date: 01 Mar 2000 11:25:41 +0100
"Andy Finkel" <andy@flyingcat.com> writes:
> Thought I'd mention, we're actively looking for programmers to work on our
> various projects in Hildesheim, Germany.
[...]
A question to any Met@box person with the knowledge:
Would part-time teleworking be an option? I'm situated in Bremen (less than
160km from Hildesheim, if I'm not mistaken), so I could come over every now
and then if necessary.
Holger
P.S.: One catch: I know next to nothing 'bout beer. :-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 16:04:36 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
Dave Haynie wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:01:50 -0500, "Andy Finkel" <andy@flyingcat.com> jammed all night, and by sunrise was overheard remarking:
>
> > What other way can you have the chance to work personally with Dave Haynie
> > on a project :-)
>
Would you accept Bunny Rock? He's still looking (or not quite, but maybe).
>
> Beer boy! I need a refill!
That's the hook, though: no "refills" in Germany, you have to pay each time. ;)
>
> --
> Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology, Met@box AG | http://www.metabox.de
> "Destined to take the place of the Mud Shark in your mythology"
What's a mud shark?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 16:08:01 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
"Samuel A. Falvo II" wrote:
> On 29 Feb 2000, Ash R. J. Wyllie wrote:
>
> > >> What other way can you have the chance to work personally with Dave Haynie
> > >> on a project :-)
> >
> > >Beer boy! I need a refill!
>
> I would love to work on the project as well -- I just don't want to move
> from California... :(
Andy Finkel does work for them, but not in HiHeim either. ;)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 12:54:09 -0500
From: Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
At 10:04 AM 3/1/00, you wrote:
> > Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology, Met@box AG | http://www.metabox.de
> > "Destined to take the place of the Mud Shark in your mythology"
>
> What's a mud shark?
.. and what's it doing in my computer?
Damien Mc Kenna, Computer Science Student Married to Jen Parent of 4 cats
http://mc-kenna.com damien@mc-kenna.com ICQ:17066133
Please use our new web and email addresses and remove any old ones you have
------------------------------
From: "Gerald Everett" <g.r.everett@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 18:54:57 -0500
If you take the job, somebody will come over every
morning and shake your house with a bulldozer so
you will feel at home. Just make believe the autobahn
is a free way, and you got it made. Just bring a lot
of sun lamps.
Anyway, you couldn't have any time to actually go
outdoors, and pizza is pizza anywhere.
code on
Jerry Everett
----- Original Message -----
From: "Samuel A. Falvo II" <kc5tja@armored.net>
To: "Dave Haynie" <teamone@thenostromo.reefer.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 1:12 AM
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
> On 29 Feb 2000, Ash R. J. Wyllie wrote:
>
> > >> What other way can you have the chance to work personally with Dave
Haynie
> > >> on a project :-)
> >
> > >Beer boy! I need a refill!
>
> I would love to work on the project as well -- I just don't want to move
> from California... :(
>
> --
> KC5TJA/6, DM13, QRP-L #1447
> Samuel A. Falvo II
> Oceanside, CA
>
>
>
> * The TeamONE List. IRC channel &TeamONE at irc.thenostromo.cx:6667
*
> * To unsubscribe send email to TeamONE-Request@thenostromo.cx and in the
*
> * subject line, include the word "unsubscribe" All other questions should
*
> * be sent to damocles@thenostromo.cx
*
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:54:17 GMT
From: scm@enterprise.net
Subject: [teamone] AmiJoe Kernel choice
On www.ann.lu there is currently a debate regarding the kernel choice for AmiJoe. According to Ben Yoris the Haage & Partner WarpOS wasn't first choice.
Any comment from Met@box ?
Shaun
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 11:14:07 -0500
From: Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com>
Subject: [teamone] AmiJOE on ANN
Got this on ANN:
Benjamin Yoris forwarded a mail he received from Metabox AG. When asked
whether they "intend to take user's requests in consideration (US, SCSI,
etc...)", they answered: Sure.. On the subject of G4 and GFX, they
wrote: The circuitry is already prepared for G4 and I guess we will
announce them very soon when we have parts for production. GFX has a very
limited choice because of the behavior of most chip manufacturers and
mechanical requirements. But this is solved either.
Care to comment oh wondrous Met@box people?
Damien Mc Kenna, Computer Science Student Married to Jen Parent of 4 cats
http://mc-kenna.com damien@mc-kenna.com ICQ:17066133
Please use our new web and email addresses and remove any old ones you have
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:40:54 -0800 (PST)
From: "Samuel A. Falvo II" <kc5tja@armored.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Gerald Everett wrote:
> If you take the job, somebody will come over every
> morning and shake your house with a bulldozer so
> you will feel at home. Just make believe the autobahn
> is a free way, and you got it made. Just bring a lot
> of sun lamps.
Oh, it's just you, Gerald...for a minute there, I thought it might have
been Dogbert or Wally.. :P
> Anyway, you couldn't have any time to actually go
> outdoors, and pizza is pizza anywhere.
Not true -- not even remotely close to the truth. Pizza Hut pizza is
edible only for the utmost emergencies in engineer survival exercises.
Dominos is fairly decent, but still doesn't hold a candle to real,
home-made pizza.
Besides, I don't think Germany has In-n-Out Burgers. Nothing here in any
of the In-n-Out branches I've been to indicates that they're an
international company.
And what's more, I don't speak German.
--
KC5TJA/6, DM13, QRP-L #1447
Samuel A. Falvo II
Oceanside, CA
------------------------------
From: "Gerald Everett" <g.r.everett@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:42:18 -0500
Your have never had pizza until you have had
one with spatzel & sauerkraut topping. Makes you
really grateful for the beer.
If you take the job, they will have a beautiful frouline
to teach you German. Andy Finkel ill loan you one
from his harem!
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Samuel A. Falvo II" <kc5tja@armored.net>
To: "Dave Haynie" <teamone@thenostromo.reefer.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 2:40 PM
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
> On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Gerald Everett wrote:
>
> > If you take the job, somebody will come over every
> > morning and shake your house with a bulldozer so
> > you will feel at home. Just make believe the autobahn
> > is a free way, and you got it made. Just bring a lot
> > of sun lamps.
>
> Oh, it's just you, Gerald...for a minute there, I thought it might have
> been Dogbert or Wally.. :P
>
> > Anyway, you couldn't have any time to actually go
> > outdoors, and pizza is pizza anywhere.
>
> Not true -- not even remotely close to the truth. Pizza Hut pizza is
> edible only for the utmost emergencies in engineer survival exercises.
> Dominos is fairly decent, but still doesn't hold a candle to real,
> home-made pizza.
>
> Besides, I don't think Germany has In-n-Out Burgers. Nothing here in any
> of the In-n-Out branches I've been to indicates that they're an
> international company.
>
> And what's more, I don't speak German.
>
> --
> KC5TJA/6, DM13, QRP-L #1447
> Samuel A. Falvo II
> Oceanside, CA
>
>
>
> * The TeamONE List. IRC channel &TeamONE at irc.thenostromo.cx:6667
*
> * To unsubscribe send email to TeamONE-Request@thenostromo.cx and in the
*
> * subject line, include the word "unsubscribe" All other questions should
*
> * be sent to damocles@thenostromo.cx
*
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 14:12:55 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
"Samuel A. Falvo II" wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Gerald Everett wrote:
>
> > If you take the job, somebody will come over every
> > morning and shake your house with a bulldozer so
> > you will feel at home. Just make believe the autobahn
> > is a free way, and you got it made. Just bring a lot
> > of sun lamps.
>
> Oh, it's just you, Gerald...for a minute there, I thought it might have
> been Dogbert or Wally.. :P
>
Two "oceans" (well, salt water areas) can be reached at about 200 miles or less
distance each, in an hour or two by train or car. I think there may even be
dolphins in them (though the coasts aren't quite littered with them), but more
likely at least the bigger whales .. and naked girls, no topless bans here. ;)
>
> > Anyway, you couldn't have any time to actually go
> > outdoors, and pizza is pizza anywhere.
>
> Not true -- not even remotely close to the truth. Pizza Hut pizza is
> edible only for the utmost emergencies in engineer survival exercises.
> Dominos is fairly decent, but still doesn't hold a candle to real,
> home-made pizza.
>
Most pizza shops here actually are little family-owned ones, no chains at all.
>
> Besides, I don't think Germany has In-n-Out Burgers. Nothing here in any
> of the In-n-Out branches I've been to indicates that they're an
> international company.
>
Probably right .. however, what about Doener shops instead? All of them
family-owned, no chain - if you ask, they may be flexible enough to add your
favourite burger recipy to their list.
>
> And what's more, I don't speak German.
Macht nix, wir koennen alle englisch. :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 14:19:54 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
Gerald Everett wrote:
> Your have never had pizza until you have had
> one with spatzel & sauerkraut topping. Makes you
> really grateful for the beer.
Hugely exaggerated .. I've never eaten Sauerkraut, despite living here for my
whole life .. so, you can escape it. ;)
>
> If you take the job, they will have a beautiful frouline
> to teach you German. Andy Finkel ill loan you one
> from his harem!
That's one way.
------------------------------
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 16:10:20 CET
From: "Olaf van Es" <gfx@xs4all.nl>
>Two "oceans" (well, salt water areas) can be reached at about 200
miles or less
>distance each, in an hour or two by train or car. I think there may
even be
We do have speed limits in Holland (Germanies favorite beach)
and if the weather is actually nice enough the last 10 miles
can be a bit crowded.
>dolphins in them (though the coasts aren't quite littered with them),
but more
>likely at least the bigger whales .. and naked girls, no topless bans
here. ;)
Bigger whales only if they take the wrong turn by Scotland.
Groeten, Olaf.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 00 19:23:25 MEZ
From: peterk@combo.ganesha.com (Dr. Peter Kittel)
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
Goetz Ohnesorge wrote:
>"Samuel A. Falvo II" wrote:
>> On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Gerald Everett wrote:
>>
>Two "oceans" (well, salt water areas) can be reached at about 200 miles or less
>distance each, in an hour or two by train or car.
Umm, wrong unit. It's 200 km from Hildesheim, i.e. 130 miles.
> I think there may even be
>dolphins in them (though the coasts aren't quite littered with them),
Yes, there are some in the North Sea.
> but more
>likely at least the bigger whales ..
Whales? Hardly near the coast.
> and naked girls, no topless bans here. ;)
Sure, you have that even in the bathing ponds in the country.
>Most pizza shops here actually are little family-owned ones, no chains at all.
>>
>> Besides, I don't think Germany has In-n-Out Burgers.
Well, very near to Metabox is a McDonalds, but it doesn't have a
drive-in feature, I think.
>Probably right .. however, what about Doener shops instead?
Yes, they are spreading, too. But not my taste, sorry.
> All of them
>family-owned, no chain - if you ask, they may be flexible enough to add your
>favourite burger recipy to their list.
Well, here in Frankfurt, we have a few Pizza Huts, but that's the
exception. BTW, in German, "Hut" is the word for Engl. hat, so the
logo of Pizza hut in Germany is dominated by a big hat! The German
word for hut is "Huette" (Hütte), and it's not intuitive for a normal
German to associate the two when there is a real German word like
"Hut" already existing.
>> And what's more, I don't speak German.
>
>Macht nix, wir koennen alle englisch. :)
Nah, not every sales lady in the bakery or supermarket round the
corner. It must be difficult. And Hildesheim in particular is not
really a world metropole... Hannover with its CeBIT is only 30 km
away, now that's a different story. CeBIT is said to have been the
biggest and most successful one ever, >700,000 attendants.
MfG / Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail:
Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ peterk @ combo.ganesha.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:33:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "Samuel A. Falvo II" <kc5tja@armored.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, g'o'tz ohnesorge wrote:
> > And what's more, I don't speak German.
>
> Macht nix, wir koennen alle englisch. :)
?? So much for the "German Being Close to English" theory...
--
KC5TJA/6, DM13, QRP-L #1447
Samuel A. Falvo II
Oceanside, CA
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 15:00:10 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
"Samuel A. Falvo II" wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, g'o'tz ohnesorge wrote:
>
> > > And what's more, I don't speak German.
> >
> > Macht nix, wir koennen alle englisch. :)
>
Makes nix (=nothing, even in English), we can all Englisch.
>
> ?? So much for the "German Being Close to English" theory...
In doubt, ask the younger person. There may be a tad bit of "British"
pronunciation, teachers here used to insist on what they believed to be that. ;)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 09:02:38 -0500
From: Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com>
Subject: [teamone] RAM types
Could someone either point me to a site where I'd find out specifics about
different RAM types, or please give me a short run down of main points on
them and differences between them? Ones I'm interested in are SGRAM, WRAM,
VRAM, RDRAM (vs SDRAM), SDR-DRAM and DDR-DRAM, and any others you are aware
of. Thanks!
Damien Mc Kenna, Computer Science Student, Married to Jen, Parent of 4 cats
http://mc-kenna.com - damien@mc-kenna.com - ICQ:17066133
Please use our new web and email addresses and remove any old ones you have
------------------------------
Subject: [teamone] Re: RAM types
From: Holger Bettag <hobold@Informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE>
Date: 04 Mar 2000 17:47:54 +0100
Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com> writes:
>
> Could someone either point me to a site where I'd find out specifics about
> different RAM types, or please give me a short run down of main points on
> them and differences between them? Ones I'm interested in are SGRAM, WRAM,
> VRAM, RDRAM (vs SDRAM), SDR-DRAM and DDR-DRAM, and any others you are aware
> of. Thanks!
>
There is an older RAM guide on Tom's Hardware:
http://www.tomshardware.com/guides/ram.html
It concentrates on the DRAM types used as main memory for desktop computers,
therefore you won't find much info on more specialized RAM types, though.
SGRAM, WRAM, VRAM are (were) mostly used in graphics cards. The speciality of
VRAM is that it is dual-ported. The video RAMDAC has a seperate port for serial
reading (for refreshing the CRT display), while the CPU (or a blitter) can
simultaneusly read and write the frame buffer. VRAM is no longer in use
nowadays, because it's cheaper to double the bandwidth (with wider buses or
faster clocks) rather than to provide a second access port. (BTW, the A2410
"Tiga" graphics cards from C= used VRAM.)
WRAM is internally single-ported, but multi-banked. Different banks can be
accessed simultaneously by different devices. I don't know what were the
specific disadvantages that kept WRAM from seeing more widespread use.
SGRAM is basically SDRAM with some processing capability inside the chip.
For example, regions of memory can be filled with zero with a single command
from the memory controller. Because the chip does that internally, it's much
faster than any CPU or blitter could ever be.
Some graphics cards use SGRAM today, but most use plain (but fast) SDRAM.
Holger
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 17:48:40 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: RAM types
Damien Mc Kenna wrote:
> Could someone either point me to a site where I'd find out specifics about
> different RAM types, or please give me a short run down of main points on
> them and differences between them? Ones I'm interested in are SGRAM, WRAM,
> VRAM, RDRAM (vs SDRAM), SDR-DRAM and DDR-DRAM, and any others you are aware
> of. Thanks!
.. lemme see ..
- SGRAM - type of graphics RAM, don't know details, a small bit faster and more
expensive than SDRAM .. used on some of the more expensive gfx cards, but on the
way out since GeForce comes with DDR-RAM (and needs it ;) )
- VRAM - video RAM, old stuff, was dual ported, and used before the days of PCI
- WRAM - windowed RAM, also an older gfx RAM type, had sort of block burst
transfers I think
- FPM was fast page mode, and EDO was extended data out .. long forgotten types
of RAM used on PS/2 SIMMs (single inline memory modules)
- DRAM (dynamic RAM) consists of a transistor and a capacitor, while SRAM (static
RAM) consists of six transistors and no capacitor; SRAM was faster to access and
used less Watts, but that was ten years ago
- RDRAM - Rambus stuff
- SDRAM - synchronous DRAM, now used everywhere in PCs for main memory
- SDR-DRAM and DDR-DRAM are mis-spellings ;)
- DDR-SDRAM or DDR-RAM is double data rate SDRAM, it doubles data transfer rates
by transmitting data on both sides of each clock tick, instead of only one
- VC-RAM is a variant of SD-RAM with Virtual Channel, whatever that is (it is
faster, but you can only use it if your chipset supports it: no Intel, but VIA
Apollo Pro (Slot1 and the very similar Athlon variant of the same chipset, called
something like KXP133 or so) do, if I remember correctly.
You may try www.asus.com(.tw), the mainboard maker from Taiwan - they have a sort
of dictionary / glossary section on their site (which has several mirrors in
different countries, with slightly different URLs), that is rather good and might
contain much of which you are looking for, especially things of more recent
interest.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 10:33:28 -0500
From: Matthew Hunter <mhunter@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: [teamone] Re: RAM types
On Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 09:02:38AM -0500, Damien Mc Kenna wrote:
> Could someone either point me to a site where I'd find out specifics about
> different RAM types, or please give me a short run down of main points on
> them and differences between them? Ones I'm interested in are SGRAM, WRAM,
> VRAM, RDRAM (vs SDRAM), SDR-DRAM and DDR-DRAM, and any others you are aware
> of. Thanks!
Hmm. Short rundown from memory:
SGRAM: some type of video-specialized memory. Apparantly Matrox put
this into some of its G200 cards. Fast.
WRAM: Another type of fast video memory.
VRAM: Another type of fast video memory?
DDR-DRAM: I've usually heard it called DDR-SDRAM. Gist is, the DDR
stands for Double Data Rate, and it supposedly transfers data on both
the rise and fall of the clock cycle, making it twice as fast for a
given clock rate. Otherwise, very similar to SDRAM.
RDRAM: This would probably be Rambus. I'll let Dave chime in here with
more info, because all I can really say is that it's Intel's next big
RAM thing. Right now, it costs the earth and Intel's chipsets are still
buggy. Not popular. I don't know how much faster than SDRAM it
actually is.
--
Matthew Hunter (mhunter@andrew.cmu.edu)
SCSI is not magic. There are fundamental technical reasons why your
SCSI chain will fail without the occasional sacrifice of a young goat.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 05:30:02 -0500
From: Dave Haynie <dhaynie@jersey.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: RAM types
On Sat, 04 Mar 2000 09:02:38 -0500, Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com>
jammed all night, and by sunrise was overheard remarking:
> Could someone either point me to a site where I'd find out specifics about
> different RAM types, or please give me a short run down of main points on
> them and differences between them? Ones I'm interested in are
These are all versions of DRAM -- Dynamic Random Access Memory. The
"dynamic" part means that each memory cell is composed of a single
transistor and a capacitor, and will require a "refresh" cycle to keep
the capacitor charged. The alternative is Static RAM, which uses a
complete latch (5 or 6 transistors) for each cell. SRAM is typically used
for smaller, faster applications like cache.
> SGRAM,
Synchronous Graphics DRAM. This is an offshoot of Synchronous DRAM with
some improvements useful for graphics. Such improvements usually include
a masked write operation and block write/clear.
> WRAM,
Windowed DRAM, a variation of VDRAM, with improvements and faster access.
> VRAM,
This is Video DRAM. This was popular for high-end graphics cards before
SGRAM/SDRAM, not used so much anymore. VDRAM has a normal asynchronous
random-access memory port (like Fast-Page or EDO, depending on the
variety), and a second synchronous linear port. A full line of memory can
be downloaded into the synchronous port in a single cycle, and then
shifted out fast. This allows basically independent access for video
fetch and other operations (blits, etc). The disadvantage is that it's a
larger cell than plain old DRAM. Between that 20% or so extra size and
the speciality factor, VDRAM was usually about 50% or more expensive.
> RDRAM (vs SDRAM),
This is Rambus memory. There are actually two variations. The original
kind was based around a 500-600MHz data bus that's only 9-bits wide. This
one used packet addressing -- an address was sent to the part in pieces.
The downside of this was a longer latency than normal memory (the time it
takes from start of access until the first data is available), the
advantage was that a single 9-bit (one bit for parity) part could run
about as fast as a 64-bit memory bus at 66MHz. This kind of memory has
one major design win: the Nintendo 64.
Intel got involved with Rambus a few years back, and the result was the
second generation part: the Direct Rambus chip. This data bus is now
18-bits wide, rate 800MHz, and there's a sideband for addressing, so
addresses don't get in the way of data transfers (that's the "Direct"
part). A single 18-bit (2-bit for parity) Direct Rambus chip will perform
as fast as a traditional 100MHz, 128-bit-wide SDRAM bus.
There are disadvantages. To really tap a Rambus channel, you need to get
more clever than you do with SDRAM about using the bandwidth that's
there. Intel's avoiding this now by not caring -- in their systems of
today, the CPU is the bottleneck, not the memory. There's also the fact
that you need a complete memory channel for each 18-bits worth; with
SDRAM, you can and do "stack" parts to build wider buses (typical 64-bit
SDRAM DIMM modules have 4, 8, or 16-bit SDRAM chips on them).
> SDR-DRAM
SDR means "single data rate". This means that you get one data event per
clock cycle on that kind of memory. This implies a synchronous memory,
since there's a clock to speak of, so one would usually say "SDR-SDRAM".
But since that's assumed, the "SDR" part isn't really necessary.
> and DDR-DRAM,
DDR means "double data rate". This means that you get one data event per
clock edge, which is two per cycle. There's a DDR-SDRAM series of chips
out now, used in the latest nVidia graphics cards. Rambus is also a DDR
technology -- the clock on a Direct Rambus part is actually 400MHz;
36-bits of data are transfered every clock cycle. The EV6 bus used for
Athlon and Alpha is also a DDR technology -- the clock speed on today's
Athlons is 100MHz, but two data events are run per clock (Alphas actually
run up to 200MHz, for a 400MHz data rate).
> and any others you are aware
> of.
FPM-DRAM is "Fast-Page" mode. This was the first major improvement, which
allows an optimization based on a locality of reference. Basically, most
kinds of DRAM are addressed in two pieces: first the "row", then the
"column" (think of the memory as a matrix or spreadsheet). If you call
the row address the "page" address, and lock that in, then you can
provide additional column addresses, much faster than if you had to
supply both. It's up to a memory controller to track the page locked-in,
and change that page as needed (the Amiga 3000 did this). Most modern
kinds of DRAM have this feature (Rambus, SDRAM, SGRAM, etc.)
EDO-DRAM is "Extended Data Out" mode. This is a variation of the FPM
type, in which the data out of the part sticks around after the /CAS
(Column Address Strobe) signal is negated. This allows for a faster
asynchronous cycle than you could run using FPM.
SLDRAM, or Sync-Link SDRAM, was an industry effort (http://www.sldram.com/) to
develop a Rambus-like memory that avoided the Rambus patents. As in
Rambus, they invented a new bus interconnect just for the memory (unlike
SDRAM or other kinds, SLDRAM and Rambus must bus on their own private
memory bus shared by nothing but other memories) and run at high clock
speeds. They seem to have dropped the ball on this one, though.
SVDRAM is a synchronous version of the VDRAM.
ESDRAM is an "enhanced" version of SDRAM, which is designed with less
memroy latency and other minor tweaks.
--
Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology, Met@box AG | http://www.metabox.de
"Destined to take the place of the Mud Shark in your mythology"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 08:10:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Skipper Smith <skipper@calweb.com>
Subject: [teamone] Re: RAM types
On Sun, 5 Mar 2000, Dave Haynie wrote:
> FPM-DRAM is "Fast-Page" mode. This was the first major improvement, which
Ummm, not to pick nits, but what the hell :-). N'I'bble mode DRAMS (and I
am willing to have a battle duel to the death over that 'i'- it is four
BITS, not 1/2 a BYTE. The hacker's dictionary really should include the
etymology if nibble/nybble, but it doesn't, even though I am fairly
certain the term evem predates the common usage of byte... I can't find a
reference that verifies either spelling, though) were a reasonably good
improvement. The part that sucked was using ZIP packaging, essentially
guaranteeing that Commodore would use it and a generation of Amiga users
would have to beg, grovel, and steal to get some to shove into their
A3000s! Don't worry, we don't blame you- the really did seem kind of
cool at the time ;-). I especially liked the fact that they had a 25 ns
cycle time instead of a 35 ns cycle time, so they worked nicely up to
close to 40 MHz at zero wait states- magic at the time, I thought.
Anyway, my real reason for posting is I am leaving for a month long trip
to San Fran/Sydney/Melbourne/Singapore (of which most is work, but not
all- that is for sure!!!). Someone keep an eye on the house, and if you
have a party at my pool, clean up before I get back (there is a convenient
area for burying the bodies somewhere on the back 40 (that is feet, not
acres :-). I will be checking in from Australia when I have time, but I
don't expect to have much time- hopefully I will be underwater!
---
Skipper Smith Helpful Knowledge Consulting
Worldwide Microprocessor Architecture Training
PowerPC, ColdFire, 68K, CPU32 Hardware and Software
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 11:21:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Randy Vice <damocles@thenostromo.cx>
Subject: [teamone] Re: RAM types
On Sun, 5 Mar 2000, Skipper Smith wrote:
<snip>
> Anyway, my real reason for posting is I am leaving for a month long trip
> to San Fran/Sydney/Melbourne/Singapore (of which most is work, but not
> all- that is for sure!!!). Someone keep an eye on the house, and if you
> have a party at my pool, clean up before I get back (there is a convenient
> area for burying the bodies somewhere on the back 40 (that is feet, not
> acres :-). I will be checking in from Australia when I have time, but I
> don't expect to have much time- hopefully I will be underwater!
Then take some pics for us! =)
Have a great time down under an have safe flights.
: damocles@TheNostromo.cx : Bruce Morrow, a man before and after his time :
: "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the :
: United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." :
: - Samuel Adams : Morrow Project Science - Postholocaust Party Animals
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:15:42 -0500
From: Damien Mc Kenna <damien@mc-kenna.com>
Subject: [teamone] Memory with pins?
During my efforts of cleaning up the storage room for my college's computer
science department, I found some memory sticks that had pins coming down
from them. I didn't count them as they were tightly packed in bubble-wrap,
but I'd say about 20 pins per strip. Any idea what they are? Are they the
old Zips that the A3000 used to use, or something else?
Damien Mc Kenna, Computer Science Student, Married to Jen, Parent of 4 cats
http://mc-kenna.com - damien@mc-kenna.com - ICQ:17066133
Please use our new web and email addresses and remove any old ones you have
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 10:32:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Skipper Smith <skipper@calweb.com>
Subject: [teamone] Re: Memory with pins?
On Sun, 5 Mar 2000, Damien Mc Kenna wrote:
> During my efforts of cleaning up the storage room for my college's computer
> science department, I found some memory sticks that had pins coming down
> from them. I didn't count them as they were tightly packed in bubble-wrap,
> but I'd say about 20 pins per strip. Any idea what they are? Are they the
> old Zips that the A3000 used to use, or something else?
LOL!!! See what I mean, Dave? Yeah, Damien, those are, most likely,
ZIPs. Probably worth something on eBay, too :)
---
Skipper Smith Helpful Knowledge Consulting
Worldwide Microprocessor Architecture Training
PowerPC, ColdFire, 68K, CPU32 Hardware and Software
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:19:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Randy Vice <damocles@thenostromo.cx>
Subject: [teamone] met@box cartoons?
I read something over on www.ann.lu about met@box buying two cartoon
shows. Is the poster on www.ann.lu on crack?
: damocles@TheNostromo.cx : Bruce Morrow, a man before and after his time :
: "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the :
: United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." :
: - Samuel Adams : Morrow Project Science - Postholocaust Party Animals
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 07:24:12 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: Memory with pins?
Skipper Smith wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2000, Damien Mc Kenna wrote:
>
> > During my efforts of cleaning up the storage room for my college's computer
> > science department, I found some memory sticks that had pins coming down
> > from them. I didn't count them as they were tightly packed in bubble-wrap,
> > but I'd say about 20 pins per strip. Any idea what they are? Are they the
> > old Zips that the A3000 used to use, or something else?
>
> LOL!!! See what I mean, Dave? Yeah, Damien, those are, most likely,
> ZIPs. Probably worth something on eBay, too :)
They were also used a lot on graphics cards back then, including the magical
mysterious transputer ones.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 07:31:48 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: met@box cartoons?
Randy Vice wrote:
> I read something over on www.ann.lu about met@box buying two cartoon
> shows. Is the poster on www.ann.lu on crack?
If you look over metabox.de, right the entry page, or also the press section,
you'll see tha they buy the hell out of everything - including a company that
makes 3D virtual reality shopping (and maybe else) environments, and another that
holds the rights to music and video stuff (probably including said cartoons) ..
and then some, like satellite TV equipment, e-commerce related database stuff, ..
. Those announcements (i.e., announcing after it happened) have been there for a
while, but of course, the trick is to read German ;) .
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 05:11:29 -0500
From: Dave Haynie <dhaynie@jersey.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: RAM types
On Sun, 5 Mar 2000 08:10:37 -0800 (PST), Skipper Smith <skipper@calweb.com>
jammed all night, and by sunrise was overheard remarking:
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2000, Dave Haynie wrote:
> > FPM-DRAM is "Fast-Page" mode. This was the first major improvement, which
> Ummm, not to pick nits, but what the hell :-). N'I'bble mode DRAMS (and I
> am willing to have a battle duel to the death over that 'i'- it is four
> BITS, not 1/2 a BYTE. The hacker's dictionary really should include the
> etymology if nibble/nybble, but it doesn't, even though I am fairly
> certain the term evem predates the common usage of byte... I can't find a
> reference that verifies either spelling, though) were a reasonably good
> improvement.
That's true, but they were "architecturally bound" -- the trick didn't
translate well beyond N x 1 parts. For those who don't recall, the
nibble/nybble (I don't know of any reference to the word prior to "byte",
or in fact, any possible etymology other than "small byte") DRAM would
fetch a cache burst line -- four bits, and clock them out one after
another. This matched the 68030 burst cycle, for example, better than a
page mode DRAM, and was simpler to use (which is why the NeXT machine ran
a slightly faster burst cycle than the A3000, though we had a faster
random cycle, due to NeXT using MUXed address/data everywhere).
> The part that sucked was using ZIP packaging, essentially
> guaranteeing that Commodore would use it and a generation of Amiga users
> would have to beg, grovel, and steal to get some to shove into their
> A3000s!
Unfortunately, the A3000 was designed before 72-pin SIMMs had been
standardized, or normal fast page mode DRAM was fast enough for us.
> Don't worry, we don't blame you- the really did seem kind of
> cool at the time ;-). I especially liked the fact that they had a 25 ns
> cycle time instead of a 35 ns cycle time, so they worked nicely up to
> close to 40 MHz at zero wait states- magic at the time, I thought.
We used static-column DRAM, which was an improvement following Fast Page,
but it didn't get much attention. With static column DRAM, you latched in
a page and then got to vary the column address, like an SRAM, rather than
worrying about clocking CAS. This let us run with less clocking grain
than we really needed to do fast-page well. Also, at the time, fast-page
timings hadn't been standardized all that well. In an 80ns part, you
might see a 35ns column access time, but you might also see a 45ns+
column access time.
> I will be checking in from Australia when I have time, but I
> don't expect to have much time- hopefully I will be underwater!
Have fun! Wish I could go someday...
--
Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology, Met@box AG | http://www.metabox.de
"Destined to take the place of the Mud Shark in your mythology"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 14:49:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Randy Vice <damocles@thenostromo.cx>
Subject: [teamone] Mot's HA Linux
I see over on /. that Mot has released HA Linux, in both Intel and PPC
format.
: damocles@TheNostromo.cx : Bruce Morrow, a man before and after his time :
: "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the :
: United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." :
: - Samuel Adams : Morrow Project Science - Postholocaust Party Animals
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:06:14 -0800 (PST)
From: "Samuel A. Falvo II" <kc5tja@armored.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
On Sat, 4 Mar 2000, g'o'tz ohnesorge wrote:
> > > Macht nix, wir koennen alle englisch. :)
> Makes nix (=nothing, even in English), we can all Englisch.
The sentence "We can all English" makes little sense to me -- I'm going
out on a limb here and assuming that it means, "We can all speak English."
However, I find this doubtful -- does everyone in Germany speak English?
--
KC5TJA/6, DM13, QRP-L #1447
Samuel A. Falvo II
Oceanside, CA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 23:04:30 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
"Samuel A. Falvo II" wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Mar 2000, g'o'tz ohnesorge wrote:
>
> > > > Macht nix, wir koennen alle englisch. :)
>
> > Makes nix (=nothing, even in English), we can all Englisch.
>
> The sentence "We can all English" makes little sense to me -- I'm going
> out on a limb here and assuming that it means, "We can all speak English."
Yep, in German it makes sense without "speak" ("sprechen") in it. And you
understood it! :)
>
> However, I find this doubtful -- does everyone in Germany speak English?
According to some dead serious demographic research, 50% of all people, and even
two thirds of all who have a paid job, can speak English.
It's taught in all schools as a mandatory first foreign language from the 5th
year on (but I think some schools now start already in the 3rd school year with
it); for the second foreign language you can choose between mostly French or
Latin, in some places also Italian or Russian (the latter mainly in the former
East, but going a bit out of fashion I think). Either way, you can expect all but
the very dumbest of kids or teens and up to understand you .. you may have to
cope with strange grammar when they answer. ;)
There's also some TV channels which are full or in part in English language (Mtv,
BBC world and CNN international for news, and NBC for Jay Leno and Conan O'Brian)
- there's actually people here watching that, so they must probably understand
it.
But BTW: Mr. Haynie works for Metabox in Hildesheim while living mostly in New
Jersey, Mr. Finkel does the same from Philadelphia - so you might get the job and
do it, without even leaving Oceanside for any longer than two weeks sometimes for
a trade show or a teach-in on some new technology, or a developers' meeting. :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 23:41:25 +0100
From: Johan Van Gompel <johanvg@gmx.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
Samuel wrote:
[Macht nix, wir koennen alle englisch]
[Makes nix, we can all Englisch]
> The sentence "We can all English" makes little sense to me -- I'm going
> out on a limb here and assuming that it means, "We can all speak English."
> However, I find this doubtful -- does everyone in Germany speak English?
Jeez, the correct translation is "It doesn't matter, everyone
understands English". What is this? TeamBabel?
--
Johan Van Gompel
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:45:25 -0800 (PST)
From: "Samuel A. Falvo II" <kc5tja@armored.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Johan Van Gompel wrote:
> Jeez, the correct translation is "It doesn't matter, everyone
> understands English". What is this? TeamBabel?
Settle down and get over it, please. If you need to vent your anger in
this fashion, don't post at all. I happen to be holding a conversation
with G'o'tz that could potentially affect my future career, and if the
conditions are right, could directly benefit Met@box as a result.
--
KC5TJA/6, DM13, QRP-L #1447
Samuel A. Falvo II
Oceanside, CA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:42:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "Samuel A. Falvo II" <kc5tja@armored.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, g'o'tz ohnesorge wrote:
> But BTW: Mr. Haynie works for Metabox in Hildesheim while living mostly in New
> Jersey, Mr. Finkel does the same from Philadelphia - so you might get the job and
> do it, without even leaving Oceanside for any longer than two weeks sometimes for
> a trade show or a teach-in on some new technology, or a developers' meeting. :)
If I can telecommute, I would then be interested -- perhaps very much so.
However, the original question, as I understood it, implied working IN
Germany. I didn't see any mention of telecommuting.
--
KC5TJA/6, DM13, QRP-L #1447
Samuel A. Falvo II
Oceanside, CA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 22:14:29 -0800 (PST)
From: John Grant <jmgrant@primenet.com>
Subject: [teamone] Re: Mot's HA Linux
Randy Vice said:
>
> I see over on /. that Mot has released HA Linux, in both Intel and PPC
> format.
Looks like the phone companies will soon be running Linux.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 10:42:25 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
"Samuel A. Falvo II" wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Johan Van Gompel wrote:
>
> > Jeez, the correct translation is "It doesn't matter, everyone
> > understands English". What is this? TeamBabel?
>
> Settle down and get over it, please. If you need to vent your anger in
> this fashion, don't post at all. I happen to be holding a conversation
> with G'o'tz that could potentially affect my future career, and if the
> conditions are right, could directly benefit Met@box as a result.
Now that sounds promising! :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 11:26:41 +0100
From: "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
Johan Van Gompel wrote:
> Samuel wrote:
>
> [Macht nix, wir koennen alle englisch]
> [Makes nix, we can all Englisch]
> > The sentence "We can all English" makes little sense to me -- I'm going
> > out on a limb here and assuming that it means, "We can all speak English."
> > However, I find this doubtful -- does everyone in Germany speak English?
>
> Jeez, the correct translation is "It doesn't matter, everyone
> understands English". What is this? TeamBabel?
The point was more to show similarity in both languages, in order to increase
Metabox's shareholder value by luring a capable person into working for them. :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:25:57 -0400
From: "Rogers, John" <John.Rogers@usda.gov>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
g'o'tz ohnesorge wrote:
> Johan Van Gompel wrote:
>
> > Samuel wrote:
> >
> > [Macht nix, wir koennen alle englisch]
> > [Makes nix, we can all Englisch]
> > > The sentence "We can all English" makes little sense to
> me -- I'm going
> > > out on a limb here and assuming that it means, "We can
> all speak English."
> > > However, I find this doubtful -- does everyone in Germany
> speak English?
> >
> > Jeez, the correct translation is "It doesn't matter, everyone
> > understands English". What is this? TeamBabel?
>
> The point was more to show similarity in both languages, in
> order to increase
> Metabox's shareholder value by luring a capable person into
> working for them. :)
If the similarity is the only selling point, that would be way pathetic...
I could easily argue that English and French are "similar", never mind
that each belongs to a different branch of Indo-European group (one is
Germanic, other is Romance). Shareholders generally don't care about
what language a prospective employee can speak, they are only interested
in the performance of the company itself...how many loaves of bread
Met@box has delivered so far, so to speak?
But I think the biggest selling point from MY viewpoint is that Met@box
is offering a job position! After all, it is a job market! :)
I have sent my resume, even though I rather live in USA...
Cheers!
John Rogers
USDA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 10:32:17 -0500
From: Dave Haynie <dhaynie@jersey.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
On Tue, 07 Mar 2000 11:26:41 +0100, "g'o'tz ohnesorge" <gohnesorge@lh-computertechnik.de> jammed all night, and by sunrise was overheard remarking:
> Johan Van Gompel wrote:
>
> > Samuel wrote:
> > [Macht nix, wir koennen alle englisch]
> > [Makes nix, we can all Englisch]
> > > The sentence "We can all English" makes little sense to me -- I'm going
> > > out on a limb here and assuming that it means, "We can all speak English.
Yup.
"
> > > However, I find this doubtful -- does everyone in Germany speak English?
Well, it's a standard in schools these days, has been for quite some
time, way beyond the level they do here in any language (though it's
improving -- when I was a kid, you got another language in High School;
these days, they're teaching it in grade school, though your choice of
Spanish, Spanish, or Spanish, at least in my kids' school system).
> The point was more to show similarity in both languages, in order to increase
> Metabox's shareholder value by luring a capable person into working for them.
> :)
Yup. The point being, you don't have to speak German to sign on with us.
I know enough to order a beer and something I can eat in a restaurant,
that's pretty much it. I have NO affinity for human language anyway;
English is enough of a challenge, and given the choice between "learn
German" and "fix the prototype", my bosses have a tendency to go for the
latter. Yours will too, if you come work with us :-)
And yes, phonetically and structurally, I believe German would be easier
for the average, not-language-impaired English-speaker to learn than
French, Russian, or Japanese.
And you get to drive really fast in Germany!
--
Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology, Met@box AG | http://www.metabox.de
"Destined to take the place of the Mud Shark in your mythology"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 10:34:57 -0500
From: Dave Haynie <dhaynie@jersey.net>
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
On Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:25:57 -0400, "Rogers, John" <John.Rogers@usda.gov> jammed all night, and by sunrise was overheard remarking:
> I have sent my resume, even though I rather live in USA...
That's a Good Thing, from my prespective. Originally we had planned to
open a full-fledged US office. Even though that hasn't happened yet,
talent being what it is these days, we need to think globally and hire
the right people, even if they're currently living in Outer Mongolia.
--
Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology, Met@box AG | http://www.metabox.de
"Destined to take the place of the Mud Shark in your mythology"
------------------------------
Subject: [teamone] Re: We're looking for programmers...
From: alfrank@online.de (Alexander Frank)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 17:48:26 +0100
> Yup. The point being, you don't have to speak German to sign on with us.
That's true, I didn't need to speak German (though it's my native
language) when I met with you and Andy (and Dr. Pete) on CeBIT 1997 !
> I know enough to order a beer and something I can eat in a restaurant,
> that's pretty much it.
One tip on eating in Germany: italian, chinese, yugoslav, etc.
restaurants are often better than most of the equally priced german
ones.
> I have NO affinity for human language anyway;
> English is enough of a challenge, and given the choice between "learn
> German" and "fix the prototype", my bosses have a tendency to go for the
> latter. Yours will too, if you come work with us :-)
I'll speak german, english or french for you, if I can get my hands (or
at least the eyes) on the machine RSN !!!
What about the former "PIOS One" betatester registration ?
Am I still in ????
> And yes, phonetically and structurally, I believe German would be easier
> for the average, not-language-impaired English-speaker to learn than
> French, Russian, or Japanese.
If you learn it by using it and not alone by the much too complicated
rules, grammar and all the exceptions, yes !
> And you get to drive really fast in Germany!
Outside the cities, on our "Autobahn", yessss ! Trying to catch up with
Dave and his prototype 8-))
--
Alexander Frank // Computer & Video
Germany //
\\ // Amiga
alfrank@online.de \X/ Apple Macintosh
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End of teamone Digest V1 #7
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