Re: Marine Force Morrow (long)

[kurt@blazenet.net (Kurt Feltenberger)]

At 11:12 AM 9/5/97 EDT, you wrote:
>>Most people don't remember, but before WW1, Germany built four >'cargo
>submersibles'; they were designed to carry cargo under the >North
>Atlantic, avoiding the storm season. 
>
>Most people don't remember them because the "Deutschland", first boat in
>the class, on arriving in New York harbor collided with the tugboat
>"Scott" and killed most of her crew.
>
>Cargo subs actually have some bearing on the game.  Please consider the
>following facts:
>
>The "Deutschland" was created by the Etappendienst in 1915 as a way to
>obtain merchant cargoes from neutral countries and bring them home
>without suffering losses to enemy vessels--specifically, to bring cargo
>from the neutralist United States to Germany.
>
>Eight boats were ordered up.  They were designed to carry 1,000 tons of
>cargo, about half of what a "tramp" merchant ship of the day could carry.
> This design included several tons of "wet cargo" stored in the space
>between the sub's twin hulls.  The subs were about average length for the
>time--65m--but were very much wider, close to 9m.  IN order to avoid
>internment in American ports, the merchant U-boats were built by a
>commercial firm serving as a front for the German Navy.  IN addition, the
>crew were declared to be civilians, although in reality they were naval
>officers and enlisted personnel serving in the German Navy.
>
>Only two of these "submersible merchantmen" ever entered service: the
>"Deutschland" and the "Bremen".  The premise of the design was simple:
>there was no way eight boats could bring in enough raw material to keep
>Germany's war industry going--pre-war demand for copper alone exceeded
>200,000 tons!  Yet there were small cargos that were desperately needed,
>like nickel ore, which could be shipped in small quantities.  German
>agents in New York had secured some 560 tons of nickel just prior to the
>outbreak of war, and needed a way to ship it to Germany without the
>British stopping them--a job the "submersible merchantmen" were perfect
>for.  The Deutschland took on the nickel ore, and left New York with a
>total of some 800 tons of cargo, evaded the waiting British warships
>standing to in International waters, and made it home.  (The second boat,
>"Bremen", disappeared on her maiden voyage and was never heard from
>again.)
>
>The point?  A small merchant sub *could* be invaluable to the Atlantis
>Project.  Imagine building, say, four subs along the dimensions of the
>Deutschland: Surface displacement 1500 tons; L=65m, W=8.9m, H=5.3m; Crew:
>50.  Such boats could be sued by the Project to ship medicines,
>ammunition, fusion power packs, spare parts or who knows what other kinds
>of cargo from North America to the rest of the world to support the
>Atlantis Project.  Remember, Atlantis will wait 100-150 years, until NA
>is stabilized once more, and then the world will be rebuilt. This implies
>the need to use NA as a base of operation to coordinate world
>reconstruction, using US & Canadian industry as the basis for helping
>rebuild other civilizations.  Modest cargo subs carrying 800-1000 tons of
>precious cargo would be an invaluable aid in getting supplies past
>storms, pirates and unfriendly governments to those in need around the
>world.
>
>>Btwn WW1&2, France built a class(of 1) warship called a 'Cruiser
>>Submarine'. It was armed w/ two 8in(!) guns, awa four torpedo tubes.
>>This was the 'prototype-after-the -fact' for sub-launched cruise
>>missiles.                                   
>
>The "Surcouf" was a one-of-a-kind French boat that mounted two 8-inch
>naval guns in a forward battery attached to the base of the conning
>tower, as well as a small hangar with a folding seaplane aboard (to seek
>out and find enemy merchantmen) and a motor launch (to board suspected
>ships prior to releasing them or sinking them).  It was brought over to
>the Allies after France fell, and despite being a potentially successful
>design, never saw action, being lost in a collision at sea with a
>merchant ship.
>
>Of course, unless you are in "The Military Project" (and I am not) this
>has little bearing IMO on the needs of the Project.
>
>>Sometime in the early 80's, the Norwegians discovered a Nazi U-boat 
>>pen in one of their fjords, complete w/ a couple of subs. 
>
>Any data on this?  I'd LOVE to read the details!
>
>>Subs would be almost ideal for the MP, as they require little
>>modification to 'store' undersea. The prob would be finding a hiding
>>place where people would not notice a couple more undersea hulks.
>>Hmmmm...Truk Lag oon, maybe?  
>
>Truk is out, too many divers going into those waters, they'd notice a new
>"wreck" pretty quick.  Why not buy up shorefront property and under the
>guide of building some rich boy's sprawling mansion (complete with
>dockyard and heliport) put in a huge bolthole containing the boat and
>it's crew?  And include nearby a combined Support/MARS group to seek out
>a nearby dock area and secure it's use for the Project.
>
>Joe
>angevin@juno.com

I see the utility of sub surface transport for Atlantis, I just am not sure
if they would be stockpiled for the situation as you describe.  If, as the
book says, the US was to support Atlantis rebuilding the rest of the world,
would it not make sense to archive the designs and have them built when
needed?  Much has been said about subs in the context of Morrow Project.
Most of it negative.  If any project would have use for subs it would be
the Morrow project for the exact reasons stated above.  

Considering budget; having the subs built to order would make sense.  The
really important things that might not be in production yet, fusion
reactor, computers, navigation, could be stored in a supply center with
detailed naval blueprints on the design of the vehicle.  This would cut the
upfront cost of having it, and guaranteeing that North America would be at
a minimum level of technology before Atlantis was activated.

And having the experience using these subs to support the Morrow Project
would prove much more valuable than the original cost of procurement.



Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net
http://www.igateway.com/clients/kurt