Re: Alternete Fuel Sources

[Bill Garmer <bgarmer@tsc.net>]

At 02:45 PM 4/22/97 EST, you wrote:
>On Tue 22-Apr-1997  9:03a, bgarmer@tsc.net wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>BG> There are a few ways you can do it:
>BG> 1) Compressed gas - just compress in and put it into a high pressure
>BG> tank.
>BG> This has three dangers - the first is corresion will weaken the tank and
>BG> cause a failure - second, is damage to the tank (in combat for example)
>BG> could cause an explosion or (more likely) a fire -
>
>Why would it explode?  Flames I can see, but explode?

As I said a fire is more likely but depending on the pressure within the
vessel when it is damaged, the bottle could explode (ie: throw fragments
all over).  SCUBA divers probably have heard of this in failures of the
tanks while being filled.  The hydrogen wouldn't explode itself.

> third, compressing a
>BG> flamable gas is tricky in primitive situations.
>
>As would be cracking crude to refined petrolium.  However, if the tech and
>some basic equiptment survived past TEOTWAWKI, I could see some pockets of
>tech like hydrogen production/storage surviving. Especially where crude is
not
>available.

I was talking about compressing hydrogen safely - we don't do that commonly
today due to safety issues.  Making hydrogen is not a problem - hydrogen
ballons have been around for more than 150+ years.

>BG> 2) Solid Storage - there are some materials that store gas at room
>BG> temperatures and release it when warmed.  You put this into a storage
>BG> tank
>BG> and takes the hydrogen release to the engine.  The exhaust gases are
>BG> passed
>BG> by (not in) the tank to warm the tank to release hydrogen.  The problem
>BG> is
>BG> that from a cold condition there isn't much hydrogen available so you
>BG> have
>BG> to warm up the vehicle (start the engine and let it idle).  This is being
>BG> used in a test program in Sun City, AZ (I believe they have added an
>BG> electric heater to solve the slow start problem).  There should be a web
>BG> page.
>
>Also Mercedes/Benz has been working on this for some time now.  I don't know
>if they are still or not.
>
>BG> 3) Liquid Storage - cool the gas to a liquid and store it.  All most
>BG> impossible in a primitive situation.  
>
>You left out Slush storage systems.  I think your first solution would
>probably the easiest done, especially if water (streams) and a bit of
>knowledge of hydroelectric production is known.

Slush is tough without a very good control system to keep hydrogen in the
matter state.

Bill


>: damocles@nostromo.gate.net :   Bruce Morrow,a man before and after his
time:
>:"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the
  :
>:United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
  :
>: - Samuel Adams :  Morrow Project Planning: Looking forward to the end!
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>