Re: Level of Detail?

[Bill Garmer <bgarmer@tsc.net>]

At 12:32 AM 4/15/97 EST, you wrote:
>On Mon 14-Apr-1997  2:33p, bgarmer@tsc.net wrote:
>
>>So would say a team in PR be able to paint a "hybernation" sat in this
>gravity
>
>>anomoly zones?
>
>
>BG> The problem wouldn't be putting in a team in position to "paint"
>BG> satellites in this area - its the fact that it has become the satellite
>BG> grave yard.  You have several in it right now (when a geo-sat ends it
>BG> useful life, they basically shut it off and let it drift over there to
>BG> open up the spot - it is going to hit something, they will give it a
>BG> little push to move it out of harms way).  Your sleep sat will have to
>BG> either be strong enough to survive or be smart enough to survive.
>
>Do they also get pulled down to the same altitude?  If not, could you use some
>odd ball altitude for " magnetic zone storage"?  How much extra in propellant,
>if we use a high powered plasma (minmum hydrogen, very high energy input)
>would it take to send something to a L point and back? I was thinking if we
>used a transfer vehicle from LEO-L5-LEO for the ComSat. the transfer vehicle
>could be made up to look like a PAM/IUS so it could hide the extra fuel for
>the round robin and since it's using propellent effecient plasma/ion engines.

Okay - almost anything is technically possible but you have to make sure that the launch doesn't attract attention.  The earlier suggestion for a ComSat that just happened to "fail" meets that goal but the size of vehicle for the LEO-L5-LEO would attract some serious unwanted attention.  If not from NASA (What the hell or you/did you launch?) then from the other space power (What the hell did the Americans launch?).

>>Let's play with the MP tech for a bit. Say the sat went into deep sleep mode
>>and wandered where ever the mag anom zones are.  Let's also say it had a long
>>duration fusion plant as well.  With the "crapload" of extra power (vs. say
>>photoelectric cells), wouldn't ion (or plasma) onboard engines be enough to
>>transfer it to the parking slot and maintain this for a long time?  Now, if
>>we have crapload of power, how about a magnetic funnel to guide spaceborne
>>hydrogen into a storage system for extra sat propellant?
>
>BG> You are asking for a lot.  The Micro-Sat series bus uses magnetic
>BG> thrusters that work against the earth's field.  The ion engines still
>BG> require a propellent of some kind and the "magnetic funnel" would be
>BG> huge.
>
>I would figure, since we are at "fairly" close to Sol, hydrogen would be fair
>abundant in Earth orbit.  How big is "huge" btw?

I would have to dig out the figures for the B-Scoop somewhere but the figure of 100 times the diameter of the comsat would be about right for a first order quess.  The hydrogen in GEO orbit has a big velocity vector on it (away from the sun).  You would have to either overcome that vector or use it (solar sail).  This would mean that the accelerating this hydrogen as a propellent would have this high bias power requirement.  I don't know if this is clear - I just did my taxes so I am not thinking straight;).

>>way of doing this is to do a moon bounce.  Yes, it's limited coverage time,
>>but it's a cheap and skeezy way of cover CONUS. 
>
>
>BG> Depending on allowable access number (lets say earth-moon-earth bounce is
>BG> about 50%) you could do it for 16 to 24 satellites for about 100% access.

Yes but I can pack 8 sats per launcher with each launcher much smaller than a normal GEO launcher.  So instead of 1-2 launch vehicles I could have 4-6 launch vehicles and have a much higher redundacy (reliability) for the post war initial rebuilding period.  In addition, I have a worldwide surveillance capability that a GEO or Moon options do not give.

Bill


>Yet the cost factor has to be though of, and the confidence that it will
>survive WW III.  I have alot of confidence that the moon will still be there.
>:^)
>
><snip>
>
>BG> EME usually requires a better high gain antenna (the dipole include with
>BG> teh PRC-70 will not do) than the teams have.  You would have to stop to
>BG> erect it (I have never bounced signals this way - just reviewing the
>BG> literature).
>
>I'm sure it would be a more pain in the butt to assemble/disassemble and hump
>it, however, it's assuring communications, reguardless of what could happen to
>any com bird in orbit prior to the war.
>
>: damocles@nostromo.gate.net :   Bruce Morrow,a man before and after his time:
>:"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the     :
>:United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."      :
>: - Samuel Adams :  Morrow Project Planning: Looking forward to the end!     :
>
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>
William R. Garmer
Member Technical Staff
Torrey Science Corporation
3550 General Atomics Ct, Bldg 14
San Diego, CA  92121

Voice: 619/552-1052
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e-mail: bgarmer@tsc.net