[mp-gg] Re: The Uzi and further developments....

["Walt Rauch" <waltrauch@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

The more I learn about submachineguns, the less I see them as "general
issue" weapons.

First, to qualify myself, I have fired SMGs quite a bit, at least for
someone who does not own one. While in the U.S. Army, I had a chance to deal
with troops issued the M-3 "greasegun" SMG. I had the opportunity to train
with some folks who used SMGs professionally, and they were kind enough to
run me through a little "quickie course" in their uses and limitations. This
course covered most of the major types then in use, including the Uzi, the
MAC-10, and suppressors for them. My local gun club has "NFA" matches, which
are basically IPSC matches fired with SMGs and other Class-III weapons.
(Paperwork is strictly enforced. Many, but not all, are cops.) They have
kindly allowed me, on occasion, to try out the weapons I did not previously
meet while in the service, including such exotics as the AUG and the Reising
(Of WW2 USMC fame). I am an honorably discharged 11B infantryman, converted
to 11M (Mechanized), and "drafted" into Battalion HQ as a mailclerk and a
bunch of other paper-pusher jobs. One was driving the Adjutant's jeep, which
authorized me to draw a weapon other than an M-16, such as a M1911 or a
Greasegun. In short, I have pulled the trigger of more SMGs than I can
remember, and have had the opportunity to decide if they would meet my needs
in a tactical environment. I have also used firearms to save my ass, so I
know what I wished I had then, and would want in the future.

(I believe the previous paragraph was necessary, as there are some Trolls
who pass through this list who really like to argue about qualifications.
There have also been some allegedly fraudulent, or exaggerated claims of
military experience. Damocles can verify some, but not all of the above. He
has an open invitation to review my DD214, or anything else he feels
necessary to ask for.)

The SMG is largely a waste of metal, except in a few circumstances.
(Putting on asbestos coveralls)

In most cases, the SMG is in a minor pistol caliber, such as the 9mm. This
round has certainly counted plenty of casualties over its near century of
use. So has the .38 Special. However, few can argue that it is a "first
choice" to take to a gunfight. The smart man takes a RIFLE to a gunfight. By
rifle, I mean something with both power and range. Something that can
reliably drop a 250 pound, adrenalin-charged man. Something that allows you
to engage the opponent at your chosen time an place. Something like a .308
or .30-06. The .223 is far too light. Most hunters use it for woodchucks. No
hunter I know has ever used a 9mm to take something larger than a rabbit.
Yet I know several hunters who take a 9mm as daily "dirtbag repellant" when
not in the woods. They have never had a satisfactory explanation, other than
they like the gun and the ammo is cheap.

The SMG improves on the pistol by adding a longer sight radius (usually) and
a rifle stock (usually). Fired as a carbine, it takes on that role with less
power than light-rifle types. Fired as a big, two-handed pistol, it is
clumsy and overly bulky. It allows full-auto fire, which is usually one
aimed round followed by 2-8 un-aimed rounds. Triggers are usually not
conducive to controlling short bursts. All this requires much more training
to generate the same level of skill as a pistol or rifle. And it often
results in a 30 round capacity generating 3-10 shots.

For Project purposes, they are impressive to look at, and are arguably
superior for vehicle crewmen who must contemplate fighting from vehicle
hatches. The guys who deploy are better armed with a carbine (M-16) or a
real rifle. The MP-5 in 10mm is probably the best bet for such SMG purposes.
It has real punch, yet is fairly compact. This approaches Jeff Cooper's
"thumper" concept. (10" Barrel, semi-auto, 20-round magazine, folding stock,
.44 Automag caliber, used as a carbine).

From personal experience, there is not a single time I can recall wanting an
SMG in my hand, instead of a rifle. It was either a pistol for tight
quarters, a shotgun for intimidation, or a rifle for decisive
fight-stopping. The SMG is nice for when you cannot have a rifle, and want
something that looks like one. I would rather contemplate one well-aimed
full-power round than a bunch of sort-of-aimed lesser rounds. My 12 gage
double does that job better, anyway. It would get picked up before an SMG.

Having shot competitions with both an Uzi and a Winchester, I would grab a
Winchester. I can hit ten targets with it faster than I can hit ten with the
Uzi. Observing the local NFA and Cowboy Action crowds at matches, most of
the guys in cowboy duds can clean plates faster with a lever action than the
NFA guys can with an SMG. Few SMG guys can get ten good shots out of a 30
round magazine, under clock pressure. Most of those shots put rounds into
dirt, not steel. The lever gun shooter usually gives ten bangs for ten
clangs, at less cost, with less training, and fewer stray rounds. I know
which I want covering for me when the fight is on.

I am certain that there are folks out there, including some real
professionals, who choose an SMG. I think they will tend to be the
exceptions to my generalization. I can certainly respect opinions based on
real-world experience, as well as "It fits my game theme" arguments.

The SMG is a very special purpose weapon, not generally suited for use when
something better is available. It has limited use for vehicle drivers, and
others denied a rifle. Those SMGs in major calibers, fired in semi-auto
mode, are probably the best.





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